Comments on: worried about the effect of ISF http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html society, technology and me Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:27:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.1 By: Michael http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1660 Michael Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:49:30 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1660 Great stuff Michael. I totally disagree with the linked poster's jump from "closely linked" to equivalency, however. And for you, I think it's the gaps in which ISF and others must explore. That's where the forks will be found. Not coincidentally, that's where the art is also to be found. Great stuff Michael.

I totally disagree with the linked poster’s jump from “closely linked” to equivalency, however. And for you, I think it’s the gaps in which ISF and others must explore. That’s where the forks will be found. Not coincidentally, that’s where the art is also to be found.

]]> By: mtl3p http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1661 mtl3p Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:20:59 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1661 You mean the possibility that exists in the gab between technologizing and commodification? Cool. I hope you're right ;-) You mean the possibility that exists in the gab between technologizing and commodification?

Cool. I hope you’re right ;-)

]]> By: dory http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1662 dory Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:28:01 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1662 Right. Because it's important to realize that Digital Divide is not merely about access, it's about lack of meaningful content for a large percentage of potential technology users.(and I really wish that people would stop citing online job boards as if that ended the debate). I was reading up on CTCs a little while ago and thinking about the potential there to educate on not just how to use tech, but also why, but while this helps some people (possibly helps them a lot), it does nothing to overturn the historical technological inequalities. I guess part of it is that while ISF (and WT) are putting tech in specific places that are not normally wired/unwired, the types of places (cafes being the biggest example), are all headed that way anyway. So if that's going to happen, it may as well be a grassroots, community-based, thoughful layer of technology placed atop the built form. And dude--all my thinking and reading about this stuff comes from and Urban Geography perspective. So there. Right. Because it’s important to realize that Digital Divide is not merely about access, it’s about lack of meaningful content for a large percentage of potential technology users.(and I really wish that people would stop citing online job boards as if that ended the debate). I was reading up on CTCs a little while ago and thinking about the potential there to educate on not just how to use tech, but also why, but while this helps some people (possibly helps them a lot), it does nothing to overturn the historical technological inequalities.

I guess part of it is that while ISF (and WT) are putting tech in specific places that are not normally wired/unwired, the types of places (cafes being the biggest example), are all headed that way anyway. So if that’s going to happen, it may as well be a grassroots, community-based, thoughful layer of technology placed atop the built form.

And dude–all my thinking and reading about this stuff comes from and Urban Geography perspective. So there.

]]> By: mtl3p http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1663 mtl3p Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:49:15 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1663 cool, dory. I hope you continue to reflect on this stuff and to share it somehow with the rest of us at ISF and WT. and i agree with you -that it's going to happen anyways, and I would rather it by *my/our* infrastructure than their infrastructure - because of control but also because of the values *in* the infra. cool, dory. I hope you continue to reflect on this stuff and to share it somehow with the rest of us at ISF and WT.

and i agree with you -that it’s going to happen anyways, and I would rather it by *my/our* infrastructure than their infrastructure - because of control but also because of the values *in* the infra.

]]> By: hugh http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1664 hugh Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:38:29 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1664 OK i need to get out my dictionary & read thru the ideant post. i also suggest that everyone read this: <a href="http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html</a> and i need to consider the problem and the question you are posing. but mike remember your soccer field in the middle of a city? think like that. space is commodified like crazy but what we do as a society is carve out space for non-commercial activity. ditto digital info or whatever you want. but i need to figure out what you are asking. OK i need to get out my dictionary & read thru the ideant post. i also suggest that everyone read this:
http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html

and i need to consider the problem and the question you are posing. but mike remember your soccer field in the middle of a city? think like that. space is commodified like crazy but what we do as a society is carve out space for non-commercial activity. ditto digital info or whatever you want.

but i need to figure out what you are asking.

]]> By: mtl3p http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1665 mtl3p Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:48:30 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1665 I'm not worried about the commercial / non-commercial side of it. I'm worried about the values behind technologizing / digitizing *everything*. And I think systematizers do it for different reasons than why community access advocates do it. But that distinction isn't being made explicit because temporarily their short term goals are the same (get more things and more people online). And secondarily I'm worried about the glorification of progress. But that's an issue that many people are aware of compared to the first. I’m not worried about the commercial / non-commercial side of it. I’m worried about the values behind technologizing / digitizing *everything*. And I think systematizers do it for different reasons than why community access advocates do it. But that distinction isn’t being made explicit because temporarily their short term goals are the same (get more things and more people online).

And secondarily I’m worried about the glorification of progress. But that’s an issue that many people are aware of compared to the first.

]]> By: Michael Boyle http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1666 Michael Boyle Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:47:09 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1666 One other thing related to this that's relevant is some quickie research I did for a contract I worked on in January. It was for a sort of research paper that crossed over some of this territory, and the material I received mentioned this idea of a "digital divide" prominently and suggested that there was an age-related problem in addition to the more US-centric view that is traditional. Even a relatively quick look at the StatsCan data (which is very good) on this suggests that although it may have seemed that there is a generational divide, when you look more closely this too is likely related to access issues, which is fundamentally related not to age-and-comfort problems but rather to economic issues. And that's why ISF is significant in that it isn't only unwiring up the Laika's of the world (enjoying an allongé right now in fact) but also the Centre St-Pierres. That's not to say there aren't dangers in the "Scorsese (or Clooney, now) approach" (i.e., make commercial dreck in order to fund more worthwhile projects) - there are. But that's what strong leadership is there for - to negotiate such issues effectively. One other thing related to this that’s relevant is some quickie research I did for a contract I worked on in January. It was for a sort of research paper that crossed over some of this territory, and the material I received mentioned this idea of a “digital divide” prominently and suggested that there was an age-related problem in addition to the more US-centric view that is traditional.

Even a relatively quick look at the StatsCan data (which is very good) on this suggests that although it may have seemed that there is a generational divide, when you look more closely this too is likely related to access issues, which is fundamentally related not to age-and-comfort problems but rather to economic issues.

And that’s why ISF is significant in that it isn’t only unwiring up the Laika’s of the world (enjoying an allongé right now in fact) but also the Centre St-Pierres.

That’s not to say there aren’t dangers in the “Scorsese (or Clooney, now) approach” (i.e., make commercial dreck in order to fund more worthwhile projects) - there are. But that’s what strong leadership is there for - to negotiate such issues effectively.

]]> By: Michael Boyle http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1667 Michael Boyle Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:49:24 +0000 http://mtl3p.ilesansfil.org/blog/archives/2006/04/05/worried_about_the_effect_of_isf.html#comment-1667 Damn - forgot to also acknowledge that Dory's point about it not just being about practical access but also about being relevant in terms of content rings very true to me. Damn - forgot to also acknowledge that Dory’s point about it not just being about practical access but also about being relevant in terms of content rings very true to me.

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