Though it may be used for both.

For sure you understand computers — your language — differently if you grow up with them.

But you can’t use North American experience as a proxy for what will happen elsewhere, where the base societal structures will be so different.

we’ll see what happens.

2) re: can’t use NA experience. I’m not. First, at least give me the fact that it applies to Europe (so not just NA). There are geeks/engineering-types all over the world that have similarities in outlook, modes of perception. India, China, Japan.

3)thirdly - you’re definitely right that I didn’t present that strong an argument for what will happen in different cultures. this was more of an “interesting idea” post than a bullet-proof argument.

I’m just struggling with what I think of this project - but for sure people who grow up, for instance, getting thier info from wikipedia are going to see the wrld so differently than others.

About cognitive impact of computer. Well, i tend to agree with Micheal that that computer have a deeper cognitive impact than, let say, a spoon. Also, it is important to remind that cognitive impact doesn’t necessaryly implies positive ethical impact. Hackers values are not necessarly “good” as we can see in the writings of some well known hackers.

I attend to a presentation done by MIT media lab. The arguments they were giving for their laptop was very similar to the one Micheal is giving. They were talking about “computational expresiveness” as a way for the children to develop consciously.

Few problemes i see with this project of Laptop 100$.

1. First, the name. Why focussing so much on the price, as to put it the name? Couldn’t we talk about a “green computer”, or “computer for child”?

2. This project is, at my eyes, very ideological, as many things that goes out of Negroponte mouth. It postulate in some sense that the use of computer is the sole and sufficient means for the cognitive development of the children. But it some case, the first thing to give to the children for their cognitive development, is actually vitamins.

3. It is base on a specific cultural context where the use of computer is mainly individuals. Some country, especially african ones, or latin ones, do not have this individualistic culture, and ICT projects in these countries tend to me more collective, CyberCafé beeings the main thing. From what i understand of this project, the MIT media lab people didn’t investigate too much about the possible social and cultural impact in societies still mostly beeing collective.

But what do you mean by computers “ontologically” affect us?

For more discussion about this project, you can read this interesting thread on MISTICA:
http://funredes.org/mistica/castellano/emec/produccion/memoria13/subject.html#727
(the thread CMSI: 100$ OLPC)

“About cognitive impact of computer. Well, i tend to agree with Micheal that that computer have a deeper cognitive impact than, let say, a spoon.”

thanks. thanks a bunch, buddy. you’re real helpful. Between Alison cutting me up ninja style and your lame-ass support I think I’m just going to stay home.

;-)

about ontologically affecting us - i admit that i may be using the term wrong - but I was talking about how using the tools would affect what they think of the world - how they think it works, and how they conceive of cause/effect, individuals, communities, goals, etc.

It’s not *better* to spend time playing with lego than playing make-believe, or telling each other stories. But it is different - and it will have different impacts on their development.

switch to knives and ontology: if you are raised with a knife - everything looks like something to be cut (whether the person turns out to be a chef or an assasin is another question).

(this has to do with the discussion on hugh’s blog)

Oddly, I consider the computer in much the same way. It lets me discuss all of this, feed my curiousity, play, learn, and work. What do you suppose this has to do with my upbringing? With the importance my family placed on creative thinking, experimentation, and exploration of non-traditional roles for girls? (yes, I had chef’s knives and computers — and lego too).

Listen, all I am saying here and elsewhere (see hugh’s blog) is that the tool is not the whole solution. The tool comes from and is shaped by its context. Children become who they are because of a range of things, but primary among them for me is what they gain from their peers, family, and society. To make a better world we need to make something more sustainable than merely a set of sharper knives.

come to dinner soon.

:-|

so a computer is not just a tool like any other, because it *also* can be taken to be a “place” and an “environment” and where society and culture happen, with interaction from its user.