great cause, terrible website
I just read the story about Lawrence Lessig’s history of abuse and the ensuing court battle. Via Joi’s post.
It presents me with an excuse to (again ) raise the profile of the MarieVincent Foundation. I don’t know too much about this group, but they have a _great_ communications dep (except they obviously don’t have a budget for their website). They have awesome, hard-hitting pubs that aren’t at all graphic or inappropriate for youth to see because they are difficult for kids to understand. Remember the one they had in the metro last year with the children with the red stains on their clothes.
I wasn’t going to blog about this, but just thinking about this makes me want to kick this idiot off the yulblog list. He’s a new addition. I checked out some of the new people last week and I read a post of his that was way beyond inappropriate (according to me). I was going to write a thought-provoking post asking whether Yulblog was a resource (a list of links - in which case content is less relevant) or a community (in which case I would argue we should lose this guy). Now I’m thinking “screw the thought-provoking post” and just toad this guy. (sorry Pat, I’m not trying to put pressure on you or say that you have to make this decision yourself).
(also, I’m not linking to his post directly, but you can find it on his main page if you want to read it).
May 30th, 2005 at 5:53 pm
Since I’ve already had my trackback porn on yulblog episode I’ll refrain from commenting on the content you mention. 2 entirely different issues for sure but still, don’t feel like getting in a discussion right this moment.
However, I see yulblog as a ressource for a community, not the community itself. Maybe a third of the way from Technorati to Yahoo groups to use a bad comparison.
May 30th, 2005 at 7:07 pm
That’s an interesting can of worms you’re opening up there, Mike.
On the one hand, I want to say - YULblog is a directory, and the idiots will sink to the bottom (as this dude obviously will). Give him enough rope to hang himself with. He might be on the directory (and qualifies if he’s really based in Montreal) but he’s not going to make anyone’s blogroll.
On the other hand, I want to say - YULblog is a community (though I’ve little experience with it as such) and this guy should be voted off the island, for dreadful spelling and stylistic affectations alone.
However, if that’s the case, it wouldn’t do to just kick him off, despite his level of idiocy - some kind of code of conduct would have to be posted somewhere on YULblog and then he could be kicked out easily.
Maybe, if YULblog is to be a community, or at least a directory+, it could have some code of conduct. Obviously too labour-intensive to patrol, but make it easy for others who chance upon infractions to complain.
May 30th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
er… yeah…
1- I don’t see anything offensive? Did the guy edit?
2- Who are you, or we, to judge what goes on his weblog?
3- Surf porn much on ISF bandwidth? Any of your volunteers?
Just some thoughts. As usual, I don’t care either way, myself.
;)
May 31st, 2005 at 1:57 am
Ok Mike’s in my living room and pointed out the offensive bits and yeah they are quite tasteless. The question of whether YULBlog is a “community” is up for grabs.
May 31st, 2005 at 1:59 am
as much as I find quoting this guy distasteful:
“All you have to do is punch her in the nose while you are getting head. ”
is one of the many things I found offensive in this one post. There’s lots more.
and I’m not judging what he says in his weblog (after all, it’s not his content, he just did a “cut and paste”) but I’m asking whether yulbloggers object to him being listed as a “member”.
May 31st, 2005 at 2:03 am
also, I’m not saying that I’m right. I am saying that I think this is worth people from yulblog thinking about at least. I’m glad for any response.
and the link this makes me think of is Julian Dibbel’s famous story “A Rape in Cyberspace”
http://www.ludd.luth.se/mud/aber/articles/village_voice.html
June 1st, 2005 at 11:27 am
I think a better analogy than “community” is “neighbourhood.” A community implies a construct, with mutual agreement on ideas and all that. I don’t think we want to enforce that with YULblog. It’s basically a list, within which a community may (or may not) grow on its own.
Just like a neighbourhood, YULblog is essentially defined by geography, not by any sort of selection or policing process. And just like a neighbourhood, there will be a mix of people, some palatable and some not. Some people will choose to be sociable and to mix, some won’t.
If we’re really lucky, we’ll get a good mix of people and communities (plural) will form within the neighbourhood. The dopes and the antisocial ones won’t mix well, but that’s a normal part of an organic community environment.
If for some reason YULblog becomes overrun with dopes and anti-socials, then it might be time to revisit the question, but for now I think we should just leave it as-is and let the chips fall where they may, and let people do with YULblog whatever they wish.
To recap: YULblog is not a community; it is a neighbourhood in which communities can develop.
June 1st, 2005 at 11:30 am
Slight modification of the last line of the second-last paragraph:
… and let people within YULblog do whatever they wish.
June 1st, 2005 at 4:20 pm
that guy is intolerable. my first instinct would be just to kick him off.
that’s probably unfair though, so maybe there should be a code of conduct posted, as someone else mentioned. it could probably be vague enough to not restrict anyone, but at the same time apply to the shocking inappropriateness from dumbasses such as the one you caught. The guy is pretty far outside of a reasonable line.
I don’t think anyone who would post bs like that should belong to your community. In real life, if you were hanging out and somebody started saying that sort of thing, it would not be tolerated. It would offend you, the other people hanging out, and reflect badly on your group for others outside the group to have such a weirdo associated with you.
I like to take online situations and apply the similar protocols as offline situations and it’s pretty clear that this guy has gone too far. Offline or online it’s still life and he’s still a moron who you don’t want to put up with or be associated with.
June 1st, 2005 at 6:17 pm
I think it’s very cool that people thought that this was worthwhile to comment on.
Basically, I think that yulblog isn’t only a list. It’s a community (or some kind of social space) with norms. I just don’t think this guy went far enough outside the norms for the majority of people to get upset. I bet there is stuff that he could say that would get a larger reaction from the rest of the Yulbloggers. For example, would we include a hardcore sexblog in the list? One that was a legitimate montrealer and who used the Yulblog trackback blog? Maybe, maybe not, but it would attract more people to discuss the issue than did that one post that I highlighted.
I’m okay with the overall non-reaction. If the guy kept posting this type of stuff, than I might bring up the issue again and see what people think.
I think of this stuff the same way that I think of some of the discussions and decisions at ISF. We’ve had 2 big heavy discussions in the last 2 years about whether we were comfortable working with Second Cup or Starbucks. Quietly one of our new volunteers set up our first Second Cup last week. The discussion we had was as important or more important than our eventual decision. It was an identity-forming exercise. What Yulbloggers decide to do about this blogger affects him very little but affects us a lot.